‘Disgraced and hairy, that’s all your lot ever call me,’ says Richard Keys.Instinctively, I look to his hands. Where’s the hair gone? ‘Laser,’ he answers.What, a vanity move? ‘Yes!’ intercepts Andy Gray.‘No, no, no,’ corrects Keys. ‘I’ll tell you what it was. After so many years of putting my hand into a bowl of crisps, and everybody else taking theirs out scared, I thought, “I have to do something about this”.’There are no crisps on our table and Keys’ smooth paws are wrapped around a glass of pink champagne. Gray lowers his flute to imitate the buzzing of the laser treatment. ‘It’s true,’ he says. ‘He was f****** frightening everybody, me included!’An afternoon with Keys & Gray is seldom anything but entertaining. An afternoon with Richard Keys (right) & Andy Gray (left) is seldom anything but entertaining This is the pair’s first newspaper interview since returning to Britain after 13 years with Qatar-based beIN Sports There is 2011 and their spectacular exit from Sky. Bombs over Doha. Marriage and morality. And, above all, perceptionBut here, on the top floor of the OXO Tower overlooking the Thames, in their first newspaper interview since returning to Britain after 13 years with Qatar-based beIN Sports, there is serious stuff, too. There is 2011 and their spectacular exit from Sky. Bombs over Doha. Marriage and morality. And, above all, perception.‘I genuinely don’t know what people here think of me,’ says Gray. ‘But since I’ve come back, there have been more smiles than moans.’Later, our French waiter returns excitedly after watching Gray’s goals on his phone. It is a nice moment, and a reminder of the player before the pundit.Keys has a bigger battle with perception. ‘Honestly – and I haven’t said this to anybody – the perception of me is, “Old man who left his dying wife for his daughter’s best friend”. No one’s ever bothered to ask, “Is that true?”.’Is that true? ‘Of course it isn’t,’ says the 69-year-old.Keys and his wife of 34 years, Julia, separated in 2016. He has been with Lucie, 31 years his junior, ever since. They married in 2023. Lucie and his daughter, Jemma, were routinely described as ‘best friends’ in the media.‘I fell in love again, totally unexpectedly,’ he begins. ‘I just got blown off my feet. It was with someone who was not my daughter’s best friend but had spent time in her company.’My wife had cancer nearly 10 years before I left home. “Recovered” is a hard word with cancer, because you’re always aware of it, but she was not dying of cancer and I’m pleased to say she is still with us and hasn’t died. So the narrative suited those that wanted to find a reason to not like me.’ ‹ Slide me › Keys and Gray presented the flagship Monday Night Football show on Sky until their exit in 2011 The duo moved to Qatar to work for beIN Sports from 2013 until the end of last seasonGray, 70, has been married three times. Still time for another? ‘My wife might say there’s one or two left in her, so I don’t know what that means for me!’ says Gray, a father of five.How about children? ‘I think I’ll answer that honestly as well,’ says Keys. ‘I don’t have the right at my time of life to say to Lucie, “You cannot be a mother”. If she said she wanted children, then I need to partake in that.’‘You better get a move on, then,’ says Gray. ‘That is also true,’ Keys laughs. ‘I had open-heart surgery nine years ago. My surgeon said two more days and I would have been dead. So now, as our great friend Peter Reid would say, “I’m going to enjoy my life”.’So we were only 48 hours from Gray & Gray? ‘Wouldn’t that be a good day!’ says Gray. ‘Gray & Gray. I like that.’The truth is, he wouldn’t. They have been a double act for more than three decades and the future is Keys & Gray Unleashed, a podcast launched this month and already making headlines. They had Match of the Day in their crosshairs this week, Harry Redknapp the week before.What was all that about? ‘I think Richard teased it by saying we could have gone to jail because of what happened,’ says Gray. ‘But you’ll have to wait for the full story.’Keys disagrees: ‘Harry put us in a very difficult situation. We were confronted with a problem that we didn’t want and had not created. Whether with malice or not, we don’t know. But if you put together the different component parts, he was under a bit of pressure himself at the time, facing court action…’ Gray’s stare wins and Keys trails off.‘I’m told he’s bemused by what the problem is,’ says Keys. ‘One day, I hope to be able to tell him.’ Gray, 70, has been married three times. Still time for another? ‘My wife might say there’s one or two left in her, so I don’t know what that means for me!’ Keys, 69, marries Lucie, 31 years his junior, in Devon in 2023 Gray with Rachel Lewis, his third wife, in 2019There is so much of their past still to pick through, we should not lose sight of the present. Why exactly are they here? They were the face of beIN’s Premier League coverage and, unlike Sky Sports, the parting was not hostile. The hostilities were happening outside.‘I hit the wall about a year ago,’ says Keys. ‘I’d run out of steam when it came to match time. And the game, I hate to say, is not as enjoyable as it could be. And yes, the bombs were unsettling. What Andy Burnham did with the wildfire alert, we were getting that four times a night. We s*** ourselves.’Gray takes over: ‘I was on my terrace one night. The next minute there’s four streaks of light across the sky. Then, there’s another four coming from the US airbase, taking them out. They exploded right above me. You think, “hmmm”.’‘We were living and working in a war zone,’ says Keys. ‘We later led the chaps back into the studio after we were forced off air for a period. We presented, listening to missiles being blown up above us.‘When I later got the first flight out… the delay at the terminal, leaving the gate, then at the end of the runway. You just think, “Get this f***ing thing on the move”. The relief when it did, I cannot describe.’Keys wants to be in London now, living permanently at his West Kensington home with Lucie, who is a lawyer. He also wants to wear a blue cap and white trainers. ‘This is me now. I’ve been in a suit for 40 years.’Television, insists Keys, is over. With Gray, though, you detect regret that his departure from Sky took him away from his favourite domain beyond the penalty box – the commentary box.‘I’d like to think, somewhere, I could do a bit of commentary,’ he says. ‘Not television, maybe, but radio. Just to see what it feels like again. I would like that.’ With Gray, you detect regret that his departure from Sky took him away from his favourite domain beyond the penalty box – the commentary box Keys wants to be in London now, living permanently at his West Kensington home with Lucie, who is a lawyerKeys turns towards Gray: ‘I would be happy for you if that happened. I think you deserve it. I’ve had my moment and I’ll still be talking football. But to hear him back, analysing a football match, that would be special. He’s the best I’ve ever known.’Keys is warming to his theme now. ‘He means the world to me. What happened in 2011 brought us together in a way I did not expect. I remember saying to him, now more than ever we need to be together, because they were trying to divide us – and then we are weaker. He has trusted me implicitly with everything we’ve done ever since.’So, 2011. Gray was sacked after an off-air conversation between the pair was leaked to the press in which they questioned whether female assistant referee Sian Massey understood the offside rule. Keys resigned soon after as further off-air footage emerged, including his infamous ‘Did you smash it?’ remark about Jamie Redknapp’s love life.‘I could never defend it and never pretend it’s not unpalatable,’ says Keys of the Massey incident. ‘I fully accept the responsibility for my part and he does his. It should not have happened.‘But at the time, it was a smaller part of a bigger picture. Rupert Murdoch was trying to buy all of Sky. I’m told that Jeremy Hunt, the culture secretary, had said it would help if Sky News could prove they were an independent operator.‘What better way to do that than fry your own? So, these two f****ers that work for Sky, it was open season on us in the media.’Gray says: ‘I can’t imagine saying today what I said then, I just can’t. I think we were two of the first people ever cancelled. I had 20 reporters outside my house for weeks.’Keys apologised to Massey at the time and she accepted it. In 2022, Gray found himself spending seven hours on a flight with her. Keys watches on from the Sky Sports studio in 2011 at Molineux, where leaked audio of his and Gray’s discussion of assistant referee Sian Massey led to their exit from Sky Keys later apologised to Massey, who retired this summer ‘We chatted and I gave her my number and offered to help her with anything in Doha. It was nice.’Keys says: ’Sian was brilliant with us. She messaged me that day and said, “You’ll never guess who I’m sitting in front of on the plane?”. I replied, “Does that make you offside?”.’ A bad dad joke, perhaps, but not one for which Keys should be cancelled this time.‘I’ve taken a black-and-blue kicking, I promise you. Andy knows that. He’s lived with me through it. But if my wife thought I was the person described in the media, she wouldn’t be with me.‘So to be back here, this is liberating. I’ve been staggered by the reaction and enormously grateful, because the majority of people are saying, “It’s good to have you boys back”. That’s touching. I have been beaten up. I’ve been kicked from pillar to post for a long time.’It is a rare glimpse of his vulnerability. ‘Everyone thinks I’ve the skin of a rhino…’ he says.The sun is setting beyond the capital’s skyline and it feels like a good time to pivot to some lighter conversation. This is my quick-fire round, much like Keys when it comes to ordering champagne.One presenter, three pundits. Who are you watching?‘Graeme Souness, Glenn Hoddle,’ starts Keys. ‘And Lianne Sanderson. She’s funny and knows football. I don’t want to sit and listen to guffawing buffoons. I can go to the pub for that. Frank Lampard is also brilliant and we like Alan (Shearer), he’s just a good lad. But those are my three. As for a presenter, Kelly (Cates) is very good. I’m proud to say that I helped her when she started.’ Both Keys and Gray list Graeme Souness (left) and Glenn Hoddle (right) among their favourite pundits on TV today Kelly Cates (right), who presents on Sky and Match of the Day, is also a Keys favouriteGray picks the same three but swaps Cates for Laura Woods. OK, which lineup would make you change the channel?‘Oh no, I’m not answering that,’ says Gray. ‘He will!’‘I have a deep affection and exchange messages with Phil Neville,’ says Keys. ‘I like Phil Neville.’‘No,’ says Gray. ‘We want to know who you’d turn off.’‘I’ve just answered the question,’ says Keys. He does later concede admiration for Gary Neville and the way he has impacted punditry.What about Roy Keane? ‘Keane is a little like Graeme (Souness),’ says Keys. ‘He can say things that grab your attention. What I had to say to Graeme at one point was, “You now need to start watching football. You’re only going to get so far with the story of being at the front of the line and looking behind for warriors”. And we love Graeme dearly.‘But if I wanted to know about a football match and have someone tell me something different, it wouldn’t be Keane. I think he’s ideal for the modern world. He will give you something you’re going to bite on.’The rest of the world certainly bit when Keys recently revealed that he once spent Christmas Day alone with a can of tuna, a bottle of champagne and watched The Great Escape, Where Eagles Dare and The Guns of Navarone back to back. ‘Roy Keane is a little like Graeme,’ says Keys. ‘He can say things that grab your attention’ ‘If I wanted to know about a football match and have someone tell me something different, it wouldn’t be Keane. I think he’s ideal for the modern world’We turn the question on Gray – what would his Christmas Day alone look like? ‘I wake up and straight away I’d have smoked salmon chopped into scrambled eggs.’ Keys interrupts: ‘Andy, it’s just a quick question – food and three films.’‘You’ve spoken for long enough,’ Gray shoots back. ‘I’ll continue. So, I’d go downstairs for a glass of champagne. Then, it would be a traditional dinner, the whole works. For dessert, apple crumble and custard. Then to the sofa, with a glass, to watch The Great Escape, The Bridge on the River Kwai and 633 Squadron.’ What’s the last one? ‘You’ve never seen it?’ says Gray, incredulous. No, I was born in 1982.‘It’s like the Dam Busters, but the target is more difficult,’ he explains. ‘They fly in low and have to go up a mountain and drop a bomb so it hits where the German cannons are. Ah, it’s brilliant.’ Keys cannot resist: ‘Wait a minute, Andy. We’ll get a monitor and tactics board so you can explain this one in more detail…’For two fellas who came home partly because they’d had enough of bombs over Doha, their choice of films is somewhat ironic.Next. If you could take one moment from your career with you? ‘Bayern Munich. Goodison Park. 1985. All day long. Thank you. Good night,’ says Gray.Keys does not hesitate, either: ‘Kevin Keegan has obviously been on my mind recently. I was fortunate to be part of his “I would love it” tirade, asking the questions. I just knew he had something to say and the producer was in my ear telling me to leave him alone. What he then said will always be remembered.‘When Kevin came to Qatar we only ever called him King Kev, everywhere we went. So yeah, that moment, because it was the gateway to someone who was very special to me.’Finally, how would you like to be remembered? ‘I would just like to be remembered!’ says Gray. ‘But I don’t know. As a good lad who was good fun to be with and was decent.’ If you could take one moment from your career with you? ‘Bayern Munich. Goodison Park. 1985. All day long. Thank you. Good night,’ says Gray, pictured right scoring that night ‘When Kevin (Keegan) came to Qatar we only ever called him King Kev, everywhere we went’ ‘I don’t think people know me in a way I would have wished,’ says Keys, while Gray adds: ‘I would just like to be remembered!’Keys, inevitably, has more to say: ‘In a manner that is different to the way I’m perceived now. I don’t think people know me in a way I would have wished. There’s a lot of good things I’ve done, in broadcasting and away from it, that have been scrubbed or ignored. And it does, if I’m by the Thames with a glass or two, yeah, it hurts.‘I’ve probably accepted that won’t change. So when the likes of Andy and Souness – and they’ve worked with everyone – say what they do about me, that means a lot. I bow to that and say, “Thank you”.’Thirteen years away has changed plenty. The hairy hands have gone. The suits, too. And so, in time, they hope will some of the old perceptions.Keys & Gray, however, remain very much Keys & Gray. An afternoon in their company is seldom anything but entertaining.